lrubin39
hpettiford
Yesterday’s comments on Halloween were very interesting. One thought that jumped out at me was the idea of self-righteousness. People abstain from certain activities (in this case, celebrating Halloween) as a means of, or a display of their righteousness.
See, I grew up in a culture that defined righteousness by the things you didn’t do. We don’t smoke. We don’t drink. We don’t listen to “worldly music”. And the label for this behavior was HOLINESS—a label we were taught to wear with pride.
And the unspoken expectation was that if I lived a “holy” life (of abstaining from worldly activities), then as a result, I would live a successful, productive, prosperous life.
Here’s what I’ve learned, though: abstinence may keep me from suffering the consequences of many things, but it doesn’t guarantee that I’ll ever accomplish anything!
In other words, if I don’t smoke, I significantly decrease my likelihood of getting lung cancer. But not smoking doesn’t make me a better student, worker, citizen…or even a better Christian!
I’ve grown up watching a generation of Holiness folks live their lives taking pride in their abstinence, but never really living the successful lives they somehow expected would be an automatic result of their abstinence.
And to be honest…that hurts.
October 31, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Yes Lawd! You are so right Lee. Holiness is so much more that what you don’t do. You may never sip on alcohol but you have anger in your heart. You may puff out your chest because you don’t go to the club, but you squander and waste the money that God has blessed you with. So while following the “rules” of Christianity (along with truly believing that Jesus is the Son of God) may ensure your afterlife, it doesn’t guarantee that you will live a victorious life here on earth.
October 31, 2007 at 3:19 pm
I think I heard the songwriter say, “I cannot tell it all…”
Lee…I believe that way of thinking led many to lead shallow Christian lives. I believe many were not studying the Bible diligently and growing, but only NOT doing the things they weren’t supposed to.
I found out a while later what Christianity was really all about. And looking back on what I was taught and what I saw played out it kind of hurt me too. But, I’m better now!
October 31, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Most young people fail to understand the contextual factors that created a NEED for the holiness movement. In the midst of Jim Crow, sub-standard living conditions, widespread poverty and the vices that result from these conditions, living a “holy” life meant a whole lot more than it may mean today. Many of us live the lives we now enjoy AS A RESULT of the modest lifestyles our prior generations FOUGHT to live. Don’t feel bad for them. Thank them and keep the fight alive!
October 31, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I believe growing up in a” Holiness” church has truly prepared me for a different kind of lifestyle, in other words abstaining from drinking, smoking, sex, etc…….. didn’t guarantee me success but the lifestyle that I’ve grown to love has helped me to realize that I could have turned out to be a real piece of work if it wasn’t for the things I couldn’t do. Not to judge, but to give an example: when I see some of my friends and loved ones I grew up with who didn’t have to abstain from certain things and activities, they appear much different to me now. Some appear much older than they actually are because of the things they have endured during their life, some are still trying to find a place in society while trying to put some of the “stuff” that has happened in their past behind them. So I’m not saying that I’m better than they are because I didn’t do the things they did, what I’m saying is that I feel like I’m in a better place because of the things I didn’t do.
October 31, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Lee,
I really love this blog. Good topics and very insightful. I appreciate the different perspectives and glad to see everyone participating. It keeps us all thinking. By the way did I tell you I think you’re cute?
October 31, 2007 at 7:26 pm
I too grew up in a “culture” that defined righteousness by the things you didn’t do. We didn’t smoke, We didn’t drink, We didn’t listen to “worldly music”, BUT we also defined righteousness as the things we did do!
We prayed as a family, On Saturdays we had noon day prayer as a family (Noon day prayer was a mainstay during the summer time when we kids (11 of us) were out of school.) We learned to pray for our hard working Evangelist father who taught his children to Love the Lord and observe his (the Lord’s) commandments.
We were taught what holiness was–not just abstaining from worldly vices, we were taught to live sanctified lives as this was pleasing to God! This was the label to wear with pride (A Chosen People), serving the Lord as he directed, not so much as to be seen or held in high esteem among men.
Guess what? Being a sanctified family caused us to be peculiar to our neighbors, not bizarre, peculiar. People knew my father as to be a man who lived what he preached. (“Me and my household will serve the Lord!) It was the serving of the Lord under the direction of the Holy Ghost that brought not only spiritual success, productivity and prosperity but in the natural world success, productivity and prosperity.
Here’s what I’ve also learned, through receiving the Holy Ghost and learning how to live a sanctified live acceptable unto the Lord Jesus Christ does guarantee that I’ll forever accomplish everything!
I’ve also grown up watching a generation of Holiness folks live their lives taking pride in their abstinence, but never really living sanctified lives they somehow didn’t know that sanctification is the only guaranteed way to success. What hurts is the lack of teaching for believers…that hurts.
October 31, 2007 at 7:49 pm
I think some of us old time christians were never taught or are not teaching everything about holiness. I was taught about holiness as far as abstaining from certain things and activities. But nobody talks about self worth, getting a good education and a job. But I believe that God is raising up some people that are speaking up about these other important issues that need to be addressed. As children of God we should live out lives to the fullest. I know that, and I’m working on it for my own life.
November 1, 2007 at 1:38 am
this is a good subject. so many times we forget about the natural because were so caught up in the spiritual and miss out out on what God has for us. sometimes the highmindedness of Im saved and sactified by some is a turn off because of the arrogants that put with it. you can be abstineant but still be missing out on what God has promised
November 1, 2007 at 2:35 pm
PTL Cass:
Cass, remember the saying Man should ALWAYS pray? Why do you think that is? What is man that he can achieve on his own what Christ died to give to man? Do you know why Christ said come unto me (and didn’t instruct us to go to any other)? Because there is no other person or way that man can be saved by.
Do you know God’s Salvation Plan? Did you know that once you receive the Holy Spirit, it becomes a teacher and guide for you? Did you know that the Holy Ghost actually leads and guides you?
Once I received the Holy Ghost, it guided me in managing the finances of my home. Purchasing and spending money. Have you experienced that–being led by the spirit?
Did you know that the reason we are to follow “rules” of Christ is because once we receive the Holy Spirit it will lead and guide us into all understandings. I know that one of the “rules of Christianity is to live an sanctified life everyday, this will ensure my afterlife and it has given me and my family a very victorious life here on earth.
I don’t sip alcohol and by the Grace of God I don’t plant to, with the help of the Holy Spirit, when I had anger in my heart, it led me to go to that sister that had caused my anger and ask her to forgive me, by the time I had asked my sister to forgive me, the Holy Spirit had brought a spirit of repentance that covered us both and through the Holy Spirit were freed of ought and we both went to the altar in prayer, where the spirit of God met us both in a mighty way.
No Cass, you are wrong, living a sanctified life gives victory, you get to live the best of both worlds! Please seek the Lord for the Holy Spirit, that it may guide you into a sanctified lifestyle.
November 1, 2007 at 2:35 pm
PTL Malik:
Living a Holy Life means the same thing as it did when Christ gave up the Ghost on the Cross. The Salvation God gave to us came with no exemptions. Everyone has to come the same way (Repent, Water Baptize, Holy Ghost Baptism) if they are to lead a “holy” life. There is One Lord, One Faith and One Baptism. We didn’t bring anything into this world and we cannot carry anything out. All laws physical, natural and spiritual must be obeyed by man as we wait the return of Christ. What did Christ say when he was going away. He said he would send us the comforter.
Regardless of the age of the person if they were born, they are now subject to the laws that govern life and existence in this world. That is why we were told to teach our children, because the promise for everlasting life is for us and our children, and our childrens children! We must lead sanctified lives, so that our children will see and know that this is what Christ is calling us to be—Holy for he is Holy.
November 1, 2007 at 2:36 pm
PTL Rose:
I also grew up in a Holiness church. I also grew up in a sanctified home. I understand what you are trying to say when you say you look at your friends and loved ones and they appear much different. They are different and you are not judging. Once we repent and receieve the Holy Ghost we are given the authority over the world.
We can (through the authority of the Holy Ghost) condemn lifestyles and practices that lead people away from Christ.
We must certainly tell them the “Good News”, and let them know that they don’t have to continue living disorganized and out of order lives.
Once they see what God is doing your life (your life is like a light on a hill), people will get curious about you. They notice that there is “something” different and that something that they are trying to understand will cause them to draw unto you.
Once they understand the plan of Salvation and accept it a new babe is born. Stay with the Lord, continue to seek him and live a sanctified life. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling and present you fautless before the presence of his Glory with exceeding Joy. God Bless.
November 1, 2007 at 5:02 pm
OK, thats it! Enough!! We have to ban the wife from the board.
November 1, 2007 at 6:41 pm
I guess I don’t think there is such a disparity when comparing those who are successful inside or outside of the body of believers. I am a person who grew up in holiness with and I’m 40 so it wasn’t “cool” to be Christian when I was growing up. I know my friends thought I was peculiar because I didn’t do some of the things they did. Now they weren’t saved but they were good girls. We didn’t drink, smoke and have sex. They did curse sometimes and after age 16 they had all had sex.
They respected my stance and knew that I was in church a lot and that my experience was different than their’s.
I think I have experienced success and most of the people who are my friends inside and outside of the church are successful as well. It is about balancing a good upbringing that includes honoring God and family as well as taking advantage of a good education, planning for the future and walking out the success that the Word of God says we should have.
I know many successful saints and many that are not because they may not have capitalized on education or other business opportunities. I also know many successful folks who don’t proclaim Christ as well as some unsuccesful ones whose lives are wasted right now.
If we live out the whole Word, we should experience the success that It says we can have.
November 22, 2007 at 1:23 am
i’m considered as charasmatic,i believe in praying in tongues and laying on of hands etc..but i also don’t practice religion. i pray daily and i rest all my cares and concern in jesus and my parayers and requests for healing are always answered –but i listen to music like led zeppelin and the newer rock even as well as the fact i collect movies constantly(dvd’s)and love bruce willis movies and horror movies-god blesses me through my obedience to him on a daily basis because of my prayers and my relationship with His son-not via of what i DON’T do!! i don’t smoke(anything) i think i drink about 1 beer every 6-9 months inside my home,not in public and have cable tv(showtime and encore) and i love to watch the kind of movies forementioned/.
ialso spend time with god on a daily basis/. we allhave different convictions.god doesn’t expect ALL christians to think and live the exact same spiritual lifestyle.we’d all be clones,not individuals./
it IS true!! some things that are okay for some christians to ‘do’ may not be okay for other christians to ‘do’ ..some people (like john hagee)like to argue that fact.but he’s wrong..god doesn’t convict everybody in the same manner/.there’s more to this than just reading the bible and saying,”but god says we’re ALL supposd to not watch this or listen to that,etc…friggin’ legalism!! religion!! bah humbug
November 22, 2007 at 1:26 am
btw,not all sins are condemnational..nobody’s going to hell for watching “animal house” or “die hard 4″
November 22, 2007 at 2:24 am
one more thing , then i’m gone…i have friends that feel that for themselves personally,they had to stop watching secular movies and programs as well as to discontinue listening to secular music..that’s okay for them.god ’s convicted these people of those things and they’re obeying god’s decisions for them–i respect that/. god has also convicted me of certain things in my walk and relationship with him,but not those same particular things/. it’s too bad that some christians don’t understand the true definition of legalism..alot of christians think the term merely applies to sacrificing something with out jesus being the basis(ie,their explanation of legalism is a person attempting to stop doing something on the basis of’law’ as opposed to letting jesus ‘have it’)..that’s the most absurd explanation i’ve ever heard,but i hear it alot.
legalism is legalism pure and simple/.if god convicts me of something or requests that i not do this or that,i listen and pray that he takes the interest for that ‘thing’ from me.i obey in accordance to the level of interest that’s drawn from the action,whether it’s tv,music,movies or frollicking in the snow naked..well..
not the last one.
September 1, 2008 at 9:05 pm
this is a thoughtful topic that makes me think inwardly as to why saints arent successful. but then again, when I think about it, many people define *success* in so many ways…
I know that holiness is the way, and I dont question that. what I do question is the belief from many think, that because you are holy, there are just so many things, that you cant and shouldnt do.
In some cases, You cant lead, and be in a position of power. You should turn the other cheek etc and the list of *hinderances* go on and on..
I think saints use this and in a way, *hinder* themselves from achieving and developing to their fullest potential.
“Dont do like the world do”….Whooooo, whoooo, who.
As for those, who think that holiness isnt the way, then I cant speak for them..
I do wonder though, what is *their hinderances* as to why they dont set out to live an abundant and enriched life.
September 1, 2008 at 9:14 pm
* you are wrong, living a sanctified life gives victory, you get to live the best of both worlds*
………am loving this!
June 10, 2009 at 1:09 am
(I didnt read any of the above comments) but yep, u are right…
It hurts, and it hurts me to the core!